Washington, D.C.
Congressman Richard E. Neal leaned forward in his chair, and said emphatically, “half of the Republicans in Congress have been here for four years or less – that’s a stunning number.” In contrast, he has served in Congress 26 years, and is Dean of the New England Congressional delegation, its longest-serving member. Before running for election to the House of Representatives, the Congressman was Mayor of Springfield from 1983 to 1989. At 65, he is engaged, focused, and about as positive as a legislator can be who has seen, over the years, compromise and comity replaced by “polarization and constant arguments.” The Congressman met with the Washington Correspondent for the Berkshire Edge on Wednesday, July 30 for a half-hour chat – rescheduled from an earlier date when the President suddenly called him to the White House to discuss the economy. His responses to the questions of the Edge underscore that, although he is concerned about environmental and energy issues, he is deeply committed to the economic health and welfare of his District. The transcript of our conversation has been edited for clarity and to avoid repetition.
The Edge: You’ve served in the United States House of Representatives since 1988 – 26 years – but because of recent redistricting in Massachusetts, you have only represented Berkshire County for the last two years.
Berkshire County differs demographically from Massachusetts as a whole, as you know, because it is somewhat older and less affluent. 2013 data indicate more than 20 percent of the population is over 65, and that the medium household income is $47,000 per year – as opposed to 14 percent and $66,000 for the state as a whole…
Congressman Neal (interjecting): It’s the only part of the state that continues to lose population as well.
… So how are you getting to know Berkshire County? And in what ways do the concerns of your new District 1 differ from those of your old District 2?
Congressman Neal: Well I was pretty knowledgeable about Berkshire County because it is a neighbor of Hampden County, and when I was growing up, the Springfield newspaper covered Berkshire County and Channel 22 covered southern Berkshire County. And still some of the people in southern Berkshire County watch local Springfield TV, which competes with Albany in northern Berkshire County. Also I played high school sports. We played against Berkshire County teams and it gave me a chance to see the beauty of the Berkshires. It was also kind of a nice experience for me because it’s urbanized, suburbanized and rural-ized in Berkshire County. That’s not true of Springfield.
I think that Berkshire County has become a very significant tourist destination but you still have to have a healthy allocation of manufacturing, service, banking, and education as well as the arts. The problem with the arts is that, while they’re marvelous for a guy like me, they typically are subject to the vagaries of the economy. When everybody’s working and they have money, they tend to be more supportive of the arts; the arts have more benefactors. So I’ve often said this, in my travels, that we need to continue to make sure we can grow Berkshire Medical Center, Mass College of the Liberal Arts, Berkshire Community College and Williams. I think that those are all very, very important institutions. And I also think that the economy can thrive if all those parts of the economy can hold their own.
The Edge: Is there any federal legislation pending that could increase economic activity in areas such as Berkshire County?
Congressman Neal: Well, one of the problems today with national, international economics, is that, whether we like it or not, you can do manufacturing and production anywhere. And the reality is that the economy began to change for all of us in Central Massachusetts 50 years ago with out-migration of manufacturing jobs to the South, with the purposes at that time of land, cheap energy, and non-union labor. And now those jobs in the South, particularly with the textile industry, have moved to Vietnam.
So there’s this constant search for lower wages, and that compounds the problem although I do think that there are some very encouraging signs and parts of the economy are doing well. But on the manufacturing sector it’s “help wanted” because the workforce needs skills that go beyond what would have been offered in a technical high school 45 years ago. Now you really need to have full knowledge of the computer.
I’ve had a chance to visit with Nuclea Biotechnologies in Pittsfield, for example — a great example [of success] — and I’ve visited with companies that have helped prepare the armaments for the American military. The good news is that if America does it correctly, cheap energy can bring back a lot of manufacturing. We’re seeing now the cost of doing business offshore is becoming more expensive. And you’re seeing companies that were at one time going only to low-wage countries, but the cost of transporting from the low-wage countries back to America for consumption is making companies think, “Gee, with the cost of energy down, I might be able to do this back in America.”
The Edge: That brings us to a question about a project that will affect Berkshire County significantly. Our readers would like to get your thoughts on the Kinder Morgan Company natural gas pipeline that would transport natural gas from hydraulic fracturing operations in the Marcellus Shale through Massachusetts. This is a highly controversial project. It requires a swath of 50-feet of land to be cleared on either side, and goes through many sensitive areas such as wetlands and lands that have been preserved in trust by the Conservation Commissions in the townships. Numerous townships and landowners have opposed the pipeline. A lot of people say that natural gas is a bridge to the future, but…
Congressman Neal: It now supplies 40 percent of the energy in New England. Natural gas is putting coal on the sidelines, and we all want to see less use of coal, and the President always says, “all of the above” when he talks about energy. And I think that, while natural gas is a fossil, it’s still going to be part of America’s energy solution for years to come.
And, in addition, there has been resistance in the Berkshires to wind and I’ve been a champion of the wind production credit for wind energy but you can see that the opposition in the past to some of the windmills complicates the picture. It’s been happening in the [Pioneer]Valley. People want less dependence on fossil fuels, but then they use land use permitting to stop the use of wind. The reality is that solar and wind alone, on their own, provide about [only] six per cent of America’s capacity.
And I guess my argument would be that certainly we desire to be on a path to get away from fossils but it’s not going to happen tomorrow. So what are we going do for a bridge to get us away from fossils? I’ve been a real champion of clean tech and of using the tax code to promote it, it’s just that I think that there’s a mistaken impression that if you build more solar panels, as has been done in Pittsfield and other places, that that’s going to solve America’s energy problems. It really doesn’t. Next year, North Dakota is going to produce more oil than Prudhoe Bay.
The Edge: That’s surprising.
Congressman Neal: Yes, it’s wild, what’s happening. So on the pipeline, look, if the communities don’t want it during the permitting process, I’m certainly going to abide by their land-use decision that they want but I think that it’s very hard to argue that you want the restoration of manufacturing and think you can do it without reliable source of energy, that’s all.
The Edge: There appear to be changing views of natural gas. Some who used to call natural gas “a bridge to renewables” are now calling natural gas “a bridge to nowhere” because, among other things, there are the methane leaks that occur in the life cycle of extraction and transportation, and methane is a far more potent greenhouse gas than CO2.
Congressman Neal: Yes, but I also think that if done correctly…well, part of the issue that we have in New England, and why natural gas costs so much more in New England than it does in Pennsylvania is that other states have made a commitment to building pipelines.
Having been mayor of Springfield, I tend to take a more practical approach to these things. Because I know that, for example, if you wanted to keep Solutia in Springfield with 450 manufacturing jobs and a lot of UMass engineering students employed there that the cost of electricity and the cost of water both had to be low enough. And when there were complaints, I would always have to say, well I can help on the water side because the city owned the water supply, but we would have to get Northeast Utilities to negotiate electrical supplies.
The other part of the argument that’s really important is that I think we all agree that not sending America’s sons and daughters off to the Middle East to defend oil is a good idea. And that’s part of the problem; it’s international. So if the people in Berkshire County decide through local government that they don’t want the pipeline, I’ll certainly honor that request, but I think that there’s a process that everyone’s going through now when they notify FERC of their position, and that’s what the public process is about.
[For more information on public and community options to intervene in the Kinder Morgan application process, read The Edge report: “Stopping the Pipeline: What are the options?”]
The Edge: There’s legislation proposed in Massachusetts, the Clean Energy Resources Act, that would fund construction of the electric lines to transport large-scale wind power from Maine and New York, and hydropower from Canada, but it doesn’t seem to be going anywhere.
Congressman Neal: For all the talk about stimulus, and I thought the stimulus was a good investment, and I voted for it, [projects will require] more energy. For example, we’re improving rail from New Haven to Hartford to Springfield and on to Bellows Falls [Vermont], and I also want east-west transportation, but that will all require more energy. And at the same time, America’s got to rebuild the national energy grid.
The Edge: You’ve anticipated my next question. Massachusetts is hoping to bring back passenger rail service from Pittsfield to New York City. The state DOT just authorized the purchase from the Housatonic Railroad Company of the 37 miles of track between Pittsfield south through Berkshire County to the Connecticut line. The expectation is that Connecticut will take responsibility for making the necessary upgrades from there to Danbury, and service will then continue to New York. Do you support this effort?
Congressman Neal: I’m for improving rail transportation. In addition, one of the reasons I’m for it is because rail is a good use of energy efficiency.
The Edge: And it saves all those vehicle emissions.
Congressman Neal: Exactly. We’re redoing Union Station in Springfield but I was very careful to ask for stimulus money for that rail from New Haven to Hartford to Springfield to improve that track so the trains could move faster. And I hope in the long run that we can have rail between Boston, Worcester, Springfield and Pittsfield –- east-west. We had a terrific rail advocate in Tim Murray, when he was lieutenant governor. He was really into that and that’s one of the reasons I liked talking to him all the time. I like the rail! I’m a subscriber.
The Edge: The Housatonic River PCB cleanup –- I’d like to ask you about that. EPA released its remediation proposal for the Rest of the River in mid-June and we’re now in the comment period. The work, which will be performed by General
Electric under its RCRA [Resource Conservation and Recovery Act] permit, is slated to take 13 years and to cost $613 million. Environmental groups felt that the cleanup levels left PCB concentrations at too high a concentration and would not be protective enough in some areas. GE, on the other hand, sent a letter to the EPA Region I Administrator on June 18 stating that the company was very disappointed, and that three times as much area was proposed for cleanup than had been discussed with the State in 2011. Will you be weighing in on the proposed remediation?
Congressman Neal: Well, I’ve actually tried to weigh in with the EPA Regional Administrator, Curt Spalding, and I think it’s interesting that the environmentalists are mad at him and GE’s mad at him. He’s a very smart guy, and he’s an environmental advocate, but I also thought that the former Secretary of Environmental Affairs, Rick Sullivan, the Governor’s Chief of Staff, tried to have a very sound approach to this as well. Here’s the dilemma: If you don’t subscribe to some mitigation through EPA, and remember all EPA is doing is starting the conversation, to get everyone’s thoughts, this will never end. This has already gone on a long time, well before I represented the Berkshires, in fact when –
The Edge: Silvio Conte?
Congressman Neal: Right, Silvio Conte was then the representative [when the PCB problem was first identified]. I think that what we’re seeing here is that if you can’t find a common accord, you’re going to have litigation well beyond the amount of time I’m going to be on earth, let alone in Congress.
The Edge: So do you think that the remedy will be controversial, and that will be reflected in the comments on the proposed rule?
Congressman Neal: Well, yes, and I think that you’re always better off in these instances to try to find accommodation rather than a yes or no from a court. And I’ve been in touch with the State Senator, Ben Downing, and State Representatives to talk with them about it, and I’ve been in touch with the Boards of Selectmen and Selectwomen, and I think that we’d all desire perfection but we’re going to hopefully end up with what’s possible.
The Edge: You mean in terms of cleanup levels?
Congressman Neal: Cleanup levels, coupled with the fact that I just think that a court case would go on for another decade.
The Edge: Well, lengthy litigation of EPA rules happens frequently, and certainly could happen with a particular cleanup like this one.
Congressman Neal: It’s exasperating.
The Edge: If a constituent were concerned that your view of the cleanup might be influenced by the fact that GE has contributed to your election campaigns, how would you respond?
Congressman Neal: Well, the issue [the PCB cleanup] certainly predates me. I’ve represented Berkshire County now for three years, and I can tell you it’s gone on with two Congressmen before me and how many Senators including Kennedy and Kerry –- I mean it’s the old argument that you hear in the context of a political campaign –- but I think that someone could argue pretty clearly that there wasn’t any effort to help me make a decision about the Housatonic before I represented the area.
The Edge: There wasn’t?
Congressman Neal: There wasn’t. There couldn’t be! Why would I…I didn’t even know that redistricting was going to happen.
The Edge: Turning to another subject, is there much of a Tea Party presence in Berkshire County?
Congressman Neal: No, there’s a considerable one in Worcester County that I represented in the past. There’s a little bit; there’s some of it in the East Longmeadow area. The center of it at one time was in the part of western Massachusetts that I represented. I was not their favorite candidate. [laughter]
The Edge: This is a broad question. You have served in Congress for 26 years, and are Dean of the Massachusetts delegation –
Congressman Neal: The New England Delegation as well.
The Edge: OK, thanks, I didn’t realize that. When you were first elected to Congress in 1988, the House was Democratic, Jim Wright was speaker, then Tom Foley. And then you went through the tenures of Newt Gingrich, Dennis Hastert, Nancy Pelosi, and now, John Boehner. What have been the most notable changes over the years?
Congressman Neal: Well, you’ve seen the demise of Northeastern Republicans, and the demise of Southern Democrats, and you’ve seen two parties that are more polarized and charged up than ever. And when I came to Congress, the Internet was just getting underway –- no small consideration. So, the Internet feeds rumor; it feeds half-truths; and it is a very important part of how we communicate with each other.
The Edge: You think that’s been a polarizing influence?
Congressman Neal: Oh, huge! The Internet has become a forum for a lot of inaccurate information. And, in addition, the Internet contributes to what I call “instant opinion.” Two years later, we say, “how could we have believed that?” but it’s out there. The Internet has contributed to 24-hours of news that covers more conflict than substance. And I’ve seen what’s happened to what I used to call “mainstream news.” In my class at UMass on Politics and Journalism, you’re hard-pressed to find more than a handful of students each semester who read a daily newspaper. They consume their news from the Internet, so that contributes to what I call “confirmation bias,” that is, people tune in to the news that they agree with.
The Edge: And I think that cable TV has had a lot to do with polarization, too.
Congressman Neal: Oh, it reinforces it. They have no interest in solutions. It’s to keep the conflict going so that you can keep the ratings up. Consider how few people watch the cable shows. In a nation of 312 million people, a tiny, tiny number of people, but look what’s happened to mainstream news, conventional news. The demise of ABC, NBC, and CBS –- sort of a collective forum for substantive reporting where we all used to tune in –- it doesn’t happen any more. And then you have these other competing news outlets and then you 24-hour news that sometimes identifies problems that didn’t exist 24 hours earlier, and then magnifies the problem.
The Edge: What about socializing [adding to polarization]? Now, representatives go back to their districts on weekends instead of staying in Washington D.C., and socializing with one another, getting to know each other?
Congressman Neal: If you stay in D.C., then you’re accused of being out of touch. I haven’t quite figured that out. You can get back home in an hour or so and then you’re all over the place…Many of the charges that are leveled against Congress –- some of which are deserved, incidentally –- come from interest groups that are dissatisfied with the outcome of the positions that members of Congress take, and we are not in the position of guaranteeing their success. We’re in the position of guaranteeing the opportunity for success.
And many of the groups who don’t like Congress have come up with proposals, like for example term limits. But we already have term limits. They’re called elections. And it’s all of this “we’re going to sue the President” stuff.
The Edge: I was going to ask you about that. It seems unbelievable.
Congressman Neal: I’m going to vote against it. [laughter] I was talking about it with the President yesterday. He was kind of chuckling about it. We were talking about some legislation, and the President said, “Oh I was talking to that guy, and I was reminded that he was one of the guys who wants to sue me, and then impeach me. [laughter]
The Edge: Do you think that President Obama may be benefitting a little from this craziness because independents and moderates are turned off by it?
Congressman Neal: Yeah, he is. Look, I voted against the War in Iraq… and the problem is that, if you had taken an opinion poll at the time, more than two-thirds of the American people favored the invasion. And Bill [the Congressman’s Press Secretary] will tell you about the hit we took at the time, with people calling and writing letters because they were all for it. And afterwards, now people say it’s the right vote. And I think that the measure of time is important, because experience in Congress does count. I never bought the argument of weapons of mass destruction and I questioned General Myers about it.
Half the Republicans in Congress right now have been here for four years or less. That’s a stunning number. That’s why you get what you get, the constant arguments. There’s no experience with the institution. I was here, and I thought that the assault on Clinton was outrageous. I voted “no” on all four counts of indictment against Clinton. This is what’s happened to the national lexicon, the tone of the political debate. And the Internet feeds it.
The Edge: Do we have time for one or two more questions?
Congressman Neal: Sure, yes.
The Edge: It struck me that you’re unopposed for the 2014 election for your seat, yet there’s a sizeable campaign war chest. There was $2.3 million in campaign contributions on hand as of January. So if there’s no opponent, and you don’t need to spend for advertising and TV spots and the like, what happens to that money?
Congressman Neal: Well, it sits there, and I will be assisting the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee for Democratic candidates across the country. I’ll be helping them regularly. One of the ironies of the media in terms of their coverage of campaign finance is that, on the one hand the media bemoans the size of campaign fundraising and in the next breath, they use it as a metric for whether or not you’re effective. The press regularly reports amongst one’s skills in electioneering your ability to raise campaign money. And to be very frank, Barrack Obama is President today in some measure because he was the best fundraiser. George Bush was the best fundraiser; Bill Clinton was the best fundraiser. This is a constant part of the business now, and the Supreme Court decisions have not helped at all.
The Edge: No, they really have not. So you’ll be giving some help to the Democratic Congressional campaigns.
Congressman Neal: Oh yeah, big help.
The Edge: If you eventually retire and there’s campaign contribution money left, what would happen to it?
Congressman Neal: Well, it may be there for a while because I’m not considering retiring, so I haven’t given a lot of thought to it.
The Edge: Would you support Hilary for President?
Congressman Neal: Yes.
The Edge: What about Elizabeth Warren? She seems to be gaining in popularity.
Congressman Neal: Nobody scrambled more to get her to the Senate than I did. I like her; she’s really nice. But I go way back with the Clintons. I’m an original with them. And, at any rate, Senator Warren has said explicitly that she’s not a candidate. And people would be surprised if I were not on board with Hilary Clinton. I’m real friendly with them; I talk to the former President regularly and talk with her, too.
The Edge: I’m winding up, but I wanted to ask about some of the major issues that Congress is trying to deal with before the August recess.
Congressman Neal: There are a lot of them. There’s the border, Ukraine, Gaza, there’s a host of issues. And there’s the VA [Veterans’ medical reform] –
The Edge: Do you think any of these will get done?
Congressman Neal: No, not in the immediate future,
The Edge: … the Highway Trust Fund?
Congressman Neal: Yes, that used to be the easiest issue to accomplish around here in Washington and now that’s a war zone. I’m hoping that will be resolved before we leave but no guarantee.
The Edge: So some votes are coming up.
Congressman Neal: Yes, in a few minutes.
The Edge: Well, thank you very much for your time, Congressman Neal.
Congressman Neal: I’m delighted you could be here. Stay in touch with Bill [the Congressman’s Press Secretary] I’m not hard to get hold of.
